For about five years now, I’ve envisioned doing a podcast.
It seemed like an easy enough idea: I’d record myself interviewing and hanging with musicians and other artists I came into contact with. It would be broadcast weekly or bi-weekly. I’d call it ‘The Skol Sessions.’
Unfortunately, it’s been one of those projects that’s turned out to be easier said than done. It takes some serious time and dedication to pull off a podcast, with regular episodes. And not to make excuses, but between my just released album and other monumental creative projects, I’ve been spread very thin.
So I decided to give myself a break on this one. I found peace with ‘The Skol Sessions’ happening if and when it’s meant to in the future. The project has been safely tucked away.
There has been, however, one pressing issue, reaching out from the ‘back burner,’ like a live lobster pushing open the lid of the large pot in which it is submerged, sticking his claw through and attempting to swipe at my nose. That issue is this: I have several great interviews recorded for the podcast. And these interviews are quickly in danger of becoming ‘dated.’ Included are some exciting friends: world music superstars Rodrigo Y Gabriela, their former producer/engineer John Lekke (whose artists have included Pink Floyd, Radiohead and all four Beatles), Megadeth leader and former Metallica member Dave Mustaine, BBC journalist/author Gavin Essler and Judas Priest guitarist KK Downing.
It’s been in the back of my mind to start transcribing these interviews for inclusion on this blog, rather than wait any longer. And this past week, I was finally prompted to do so unexpected news: KK Downing abruptly left Judas Priest.
A farewell tour had been in the works which is said to be going forward with a fill-in guitarist. Rumors were flying about ‘health issues ‘ until KK issued a statement saying he’s fine and attributing the decision to a ‘breakdown in the working relationship’ with the band and their management. The KK I got to know on tour doesn’t seem like someone who’d make this decision lightly. With respect to the rest of Priest camp (they all struck me as good guys), KK always seemed the most humorous, easy-going and good natured bloke of the bunch. And whatever the situation, I have this terrific interview with KK and it’s time to share it.
During the Priest Feast tour in March 2009, I’d told KK about my Podcast idea. He gladly obliged to sit down with me as soon as we got a free moment. A few weeks went by- I wasn’t sure we’d ever find the time but remained cautiously optimistic. Then one night in Portugal, after the show, we were hanging out, realized we had an hour or so until our respective ‘bus calls,’ opened a couple beers, hit ‘play’ on the MP3 recorder, and spent a good forty minutes or so talking music.
Despite us being tourmates, I still felt the excitement of being around someone who, along with his guitar partner Glen Tipton, was tacked up on my bedroom wall all through adolescence. We talked about the challenges of being in a band, how the music industry has changed, how it’s different from when we first met (in the early 90’s), what it was like when his band was born (around the same time I was born), why it takes a long, long time for bands and musicians to become ‘great,’ and how the system of ‘apprenticeship’ is in danger of disappearing.
What this will show is a humble, intelligent, dignified person who defies the stereotype of an aging British metal star. He’s also someone who belies the criticism he’s been getting from some fans on-the internet, many of whom are understandably confused and disheartened by his decision to retire early and skip the band’s supposed ‘farewell tour.’
Ironically, the first thing that came up was the fact that everything seemed to ‘hunky dory’ with both our bands. Obviously things have changed in the Priest camp. I remain a fan of the band and am sorry to hear they have are in a place where a sudden, unforeseen separation has had to take place. Again, this interview is from two years ago, so don’t expect any revelations or insight into recent developments.
Since this is a long interview (and a long blog so far, my apologies!), it will appear in more than one part. The interviews with others will follow at some point. It feels good to be sharing these interviews at last (not sure why I didn’t think of this sooner). Although not the ‘podcast’ I’d originally envisioned, I suppose there’s something to be said for traditional journalism- a good old fashioned, print interview (although set in post modern cyber-space).
Some of you may be familiar with a 1981 acclaimed indie film entitled ‘My Dinner With Andre.’ Here then, without further preface, is….
‘My Conversation With KK.’
Enjoy!
March 17, 2009
Alex: I’m here with KK Downing. ‘ THE’ KK Downing Of the band Judas Priest.’ We are in the last week of the ‘Priest Feast’ with Judas Priest, Megadeth and Testament. We’ve been on the road almost a month and a half, we’re in Lisbon, Portugal tonight and we’re drinking this…‘Super Bock’ (laughter) and…life is good.
KK: Life is very good! And the tour’s been great.
Yeah, that was my first question- how’s the tour been going?
Fantastic. We got pumped up for this tour from the offset because for a lot of people out there that may or may not know this, albeit round about twenty years ago wasn’t it Alex, this very line up, Judas Priest Megadeth and Testament, hit North America and Canada, venturing out on the ‘PainKiller’ tour, way back in 1991 or thereabouts I guess. So for everybody that didn’t get a chance to get a piece of that history there, they’ve certainly got a piece of the history now. And as we were saying the shows have been absolutely fantastic- we’ve just been sweeping down through Italy, Spain and as we’ve just said, we’re in Portugal at the moment.
Salud! (we clink beer cans). What’s interesting about this tour for me is that, and this is a bit forward of me to say, but when we did that tour back in the early 90’s, I was going through some issues with my band and ended up leaving shortly afterwards. And I know Rob Halford ended up leaving Priest a short time after that tour as well. And I think now it’s kind of interesting because you know Rob’s back with you guys, I’m back with these guys. And to me both bands seem like there in a much better place. Like everybody’s really excited. I think when we did that tour the first time around, not that it wasn’t a great tour but I think it’s really great to tour now, with everybody having such a nice vibe.
I think it goes without saying, the fact that when you’re out there, at that particular time, you know, you’re younger with great aspirations and everything- sometimes you have to leave home to have more of an appreciation of it, I guess.
Very well said.
I think that happens to a lot of musicians, you know? You go so far and you wonder ‘Am I on the right track? Am I on the right route’ is there a better place for me? It’s very understandable because music leads you to do that, because as much as you form a group, and whatever success you have as a band, you inevitably find out pretty quickly that you are several individuals. You’re not only different mentally- somebody chooses to sing, someone plays bass, drums, guitar lead rhythm whatever etc..
It’s like a five way marriage.
Absolutely. And I have to say, I know a lot of guys have, but I’ve never even achieved being married to one woman, so being married to four guys, imagine how difficult that is!
I haven’t either. But I’ve tried! (high fives, laughter).
But there’s still time for us yet. There’s still a chance ya know!
Absolutely! As far as bands, I’ve played in different projects over the years and to be honest, I wasn’t sure I’d end up back here but I’m glad I have. Now I know you have some other interests as well, I heard a recording you produced and I thought it sounded terrific, I think it’s great you’re branching out.
Yeah, I think that…as much as we love what we do, and god knows we’ve worked hard at it, you know to be able to do what we do… it’s the way of the world really. It makes you more complete as a person if you can actually put your mind to other things. It’s good to take yourself away from music sometimes. With the production thing, maybe that’s not going far enough, but I do other things when I’m at home.
What kind of things?
Like we were saying, I suppose years ago I thought inevitably, I’d become a ‘family man’ and raise a big family and stuff like that. So I actually invested in some properties and some real estate and now I’ve got a great interest in developing that, you know, into leisure….golf course…you know the things that you do. I suppose you think ahead. You go through say, the 90’s, you know I’m mean, you’re going through the 90’s, various decades and you say ‘This could all end! And then what do I do?” And so, I guess you err on the side of safety and caution. You think “Well, you’ve got to create some kind of pension for yourself if it all goes weird.”Which brings us on to a million other subjects now, you know with downloading our records and stuff like that, which lots of people don’t realize what that actually takes away from the music industry and musicians. That’s another complete podcast for another time.
Lars had a point.
He certainly did.
I’m sure you’ve met Lars. you go way back. He’s an interesting guy. I have to give it up to him. When it was very politically incorrect to do so, Lars said “This downloading thing is wrong its going to have a negative effect on the every element of the music business.” Maybe he comes across as a little arrogant or whatever, but hey- he was arrogant enough to go in front of the United States Senate and argue for this cause, and he was totally right.
He certainly was. And it’s not just the music industry. You can’t give away anything free. You can’t give away free cars, you can’t give away free houses, you can’t give away, you know, free corn flakes or tomato ( pronounced: ‘tom-ah-to’) ketchup, because that robs people of jobs and livelihoods. There has to be that work and the continual demand for things. If people continue to get things for nothing, then that industry will just disappear. If you have, say Volvo for example, or let’s say BMW, and suddenly you can get a free BMW. Well, what’s going to happen there is all the people who make BMWs,’ working in the factories- they’re going to be out of a job. But what the people don’t realize is that it goes further than that. It’s everything else- all the people that manufacture the tires, the glass, the paint- all the other industries. It’s all connected. And its just like if the music industry goes out. Producers won’t have any work, engineers won’t have any work. Already, studios are going bust. In fact I was actually there in Sweden, talking to a guy that owns the only record store in the second biggest city in Sweden, in Gothenburg, where there used to be thirty five record stores. Now, he has the only one remaining. So that’s another thing. It goes on and on. But just quickly broaching on the biggest thing- the worst dilemma is: the new bands, the new products, the new artists…are not going to get the support from record companies that we had back in the day. You know, when record companies would help you, finance you with promotion, with publicity and even tour support. But now, young bands don’t have a choice but to record a cheap album in their studio or in their garage and hope that somebody will distribute it, basically. And that’s a sad thing. We need support for the new bands. And that’s why I’m helping this new band at the moment.
Tell us about the new band.
They’re called ‘Hostile’ and they’re young- the guitar player’s eighteen and the drummer’s nineteen, one’s twenty-one… and without a mentor, or someone like me that will just do something as a favor, well, you know….Now, I think the young bands are going to have to look to people like me, and you, Alex, and other people, to put a little bit of their own time in for free, you know, just to push these bands forward a little bit- not saying we advocate that this is the next Metallica or Iron Maiden. It’s the fact that, you know, Metallica, all the bands I mention, whoever they are- we were not those great bands to start with. It took us a long time.
None of us were. There was a lot of paying dues.
It was a long apprenticeship. But hopefully, maybe, these new musicians, with a little bit of incentive from people like ourselves, who say ‘Well yeah, you know, if you guys keep at it and work hard… then maybe one day you can develop into this great new band.” And you know, we do need the new Ozzie’s, the new Metallica’s.
The Judas Priest’s.
The Judas Priest’s, the Testament’s the Motorhead’s, Megadeth’s. Everyone. We need the new bands, people. Because one day, hey, we’re gonna be gone.
You’re right, it’s important. We’re still doing this, but we can only keep doing this for so long. I’ve been working with a young band called Acrassicauda, they’re from Iraq. There was a film about them. I’ve been coaching them, mentoring them and it’s a great feeling. I think it’s really cool that you’re working with this other young band. And I think a lot of the newer bands coming up- they need people like us because we’re from an era where things were very different, you know? There wasn’t downloading. And remember records? You probably remember them well! (Laughter). A very different time. And I think those of us who remember what that was like need to help share that wisdom with new bands that are coming up.
Everything’s gone a bit weird at the moment, A lot of the new bands seem to think that, you know, there is so much of a rush really. Bands can actually make a record now and you know, they want it out and want to be successful straight away. I mean it actually took Judas Priest ten years to get a record contract, you know?
Ten years? What year did you guys get the record contract?
At first, I guess it was ’73 or ’74 thereabouts.
The band had been around the whole time?
No it was ten years being an artist, playing the guitar.
When did the band first come together?
Um, Judas Priest, I think it was like 1969, I guess. But like we were saying, we had a rough record deal for the first couple of albums. So really, it was like, you know 1977, 78, before we got, you know, what we considered a real record deal, in all honesty.
So when you guys first came out in the late 60’s, Cream was already out, and I suppose Black Sabbath was out.
Yeah, well, as crazy as it was, I mean, Cream quickly broke up and Jimi Hendrix, the great Jimi Hendrix died in 1970. It was more or less, you know, it was… a lot of things seemed to have ended before Judas Priest even started, you know? But it was a great time, a lot of things were happening. It was great to be a part and witness the evolution of music as we know it today. Obviously it started with blues, you know, progressive blues, progressive rock, rock music- hard rock, heavy rock you know, on to heavy metal and then all the other genres of metal that we know today: thrash, speed, death….
When I was a teen in the 80’s and discovered Judas Priest, you were already this leather clad metal band. But its interesting you guys actually started out in a time before there was ‘metal’ and its imagery.
Like I was saying before, the younger bands today, as much as it’s like, oppressed for them and a bad situation, everyone seems to be in so much of a hurry. But back in the day, I think that we expected to serve this apprenticeship and gain momentum and play pubs, clubs, workingman’s clubs and whatever we needed to do. And we fully expected that it would take quite a lot of years for us to gain notoriety. And it did. And that’s what I would try to now instill into younger bands not to expect it to happen overnight. Chances are it won’t. When we were younger, we expected to have that work ethic, to build and to build and to build. And that’s the way it was done. I think that actually breeds something in you that will hold you very much in good stead as you go on through your career- to be patient to work hard and I think the fans give you that appreciation back, that they know that you did that, you know. And look at the legacy that you build up. Now, you can go on the internet and you can look up, for example, Priest- the history. People will see us playing in these places, you know, menial gigs whatever they are, but enjoying it, with enthusiasm and doing the best that we could possibly do.
It’s interesting- you guys didn’t start our ‘metal, right? It was more rock’n’roll.
We wanted to be the heaviest thing around, but we didn’t realize heavy metal existed, if you can imagine that In the late 60s’ early 70’s, we just thought it was ROCK! Hard rock, heavy rock, you know. And I guess we were helping with other bands, to really push each other to another level. And so eventually, as I said before, it’s not just what you can put on a record, its everything else that goes with that, isn’t it? And that’s what record companies are looking for now, you know, it’s bands that have that ‘something’ that is a different ingredient, that can give them that individuality. For example, even Iron Maiden, lots of people will say they were the ‘New Wave’ (of British Heavy Metal) and Def Leppard, bands like that. And they would undoubtedly have to agree that it took them a while, as it did with bands like Priest, you know? And even Def Leppard became a different band when they hooked up with (producer) Mutt Lange.
I thought they sounded like AC/DC the first time I heard them.
Yeah, when they did ‘On Through The Night’ which still is a great record to me, loads and loads of good stuff happening on there, they were doing that. But they went on, in time, to reach a level of being ‘arena rock.’
(To be continued)